read new nonstop follow 87223 8-MAY 14:55 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87220) From: DBREEDING To: COLORSYSTEMS > > RE: "the overwhelming majority of people who want some kind of gun > > control" WHERE ARE THEY? Everywhere I go, here, on our local netted > bbs, > etc. the overwhelming majority I hear is AGAINST! > > You really need to get "out" more. According to national public opinion > polls, a majority of Americans favor handgun control. Even more than that > favor some kind of gun control legislation, such as the ban on assault > weapons. Maybe I don't get "out" enough. However, look at this forum. So far, we have had what 4-5 people who don't like the way it is going and 1 who likes it? What are we, a bunch of wild-eyed radical lunatics? No, we are more interested in computers than politics. On my local bbs, which is netted all across the country, the ratio is quite similar. I didn't join the BBS looking for people with my views, and I -DEFINITELY- am not here to discuss politics, but it's here. I say this to make it evident that I do not pick my crowd just to prove my point. RE: polls, I don't put much stock in them. IMO, most polls are taken with the intent to prove a point one way or the other. > > 3) the attorney general shall have the authority to add any weapon to > the > list that he/she/it deems necessary (without consulting with > anyone). > And I really doubt the validity of that claim as well. I believe that a clause like this has been in almost every package of this kind. > "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, > we borrowed it from our descendants." Ancient proverb I'm afraid that if we sit on our duffs, our descendants will have a very poor life. The issue is not just whether a person can carry a gun or not. This is just one step toward a condition that looks very bleak to me. If you will, just look at the entire issue from an objective view. Look at -ALL- the developments, and especially ask yourself if you really think the methods of attack that the government is taking will help one bit. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 *** ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ -*- 87224 8-MAY 14:56 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87221) From: DBREEDING To: COLORSYSTEMS > And I do not. Congress does not have the right to pass any law which > supercedes a Constitutional Amendment. If the Second Amendment is ever > repealed outright, it will be by the People, not Congress. What difference does it make whether it is repealed or if you just can't utilize it. What value would the Second Amendment be if you still have the right to own a gun but just don't happen to be allowed to own any particular kind in existence? Same difference. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 *** ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ -*- 87226 8-MAY 18:01 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87222) From: COLORSYSTEMS To: MITHELEN > RE: Handgun oger 50oz being illegal. > > This would make many high quality target pistols illegal. The whole ide > of gun control is a joke... It takes guns outa the hands of law abideing > citizens. It has no effect on criminals. They will still get "illegal" > guns/ weapons, by the same illegal means that they usually use. While it is very true that no gun control law will prevent the hardened criminal from getting guns, that is not the purpose of gun control laws. And gun control does not take legitimate guns out of the hands of legitimate owners. A target pistol, high quality or low quality, that weighs that much could very well be abused. Good enough reason for me. It does not take a huge weapon to put holes in a piece of paper. ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrowed it from our descendants." Ancient proverb -*- 87227 8-MAY 18:01 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87223) From: COLORSYSTEMS To: DBREEDING (NR) > Maybe I don't get "out" enough. However, look at this forum. So far, we > have had what 4-5 people who don't like the way it is going and 1 who > likes it? What are we, a bunch of wild-eyed radical lunatics? No, we are > more interested in computers than politics. On my local bbs, which is > netted all across the country, the ratio is quite similar. I didn't join > the BBS looking for people with my views, and I -DEFINITELY- am not here > to discuss politics, but it's here. I say this to make it evident that I > do not pick my crowd just to prove my point. RE: polls, I > don't put much stock in them. IMO, most polls are taken with the intent > to prove a point one way or the other. Just because you think differently than I on the gun control issue does not mean in any way that I think that you or anyone who agrees with you is a wild-eyed radical lunatic. And just because Delphi OS9 forum and contributors to your local BBS, local or whatever, seem to agree with you means nothing as far as nationwide public opinion is concerned. My local BBS is just like yours, with most contributors expressing anti-gun control sentiment. Still, it appears to me that anti-gun control advocates are more vocal in these electronic discussion forums. And while I do not consider public opinion polls as the "gospel", they have usually held true to the point in question. And they have been asking the questions concerning gun control issues for years not, and there is a definite trend towards more gun control. > > > 3) the attorney general shall have the authority to add any weapon > to > the > list that he/she/it deems necessary (without consulting with > > anyone). > > And I really doubt the validity of that claim as well. > > I believe that a clause like this has been in almost every package of > this kind. OK, prove it. > > "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, > > we borrowed it from our descendants." Ancient proverb > > I'm afraid that if we sit on our duffs, our descendants will have a very > poor life. The issue is not just whether a person can carry a gun or > not. This is just one step toward a condition that looks very bleak to me. > If you will, just look at the entire issue from an objective view. Look > at -ALL- the developments, and especially ask yourself if you really > think the methods of attack that the government is taking will help one > bit. I do not think that whether one is armed or not has anything to do with the person's "quality of life". The proverb has NOTHING to do with gun control but with the environment, and activities of our government, guided by the various environmental groups HAVE made improvements. Be glad to document some of them, if you wish. ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrowed it from our descendants." Ancient proverb -*- 87228 8-MAY 18:01 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87224) From: COLORSYSTEMS To: DBREEDING (NR) > What difference does it make whether it is repealed or if you just can't > utilize it. What value would the Second Amendment be if you still have > the right to own a gun but just don't happen to be allowed to own any > particular kind in existence? Same difference. There is absolutely no way anyone can justify the recreational ownership of assault weapons, period. ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrowed it from our descendants." Ancient proverb -*- 87230 8-MAY 19:27 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87228) From: ILLUSIONIST To: COLORSYSTEMS There are those that say an AK-47 is not needed for any reason by a private citizen, that the gun itself is too powerfull. This makes me wonder: A) How many 'system crackers' need to break into military computer systems or crash certain government computers, before the govt. decides that computers are to dangerous for us to have, and outlaw PC's? We would all say "Go after the crackers, not our computers". Does that sound familar? B) People should not need a reason for having or wanted any item, if I want a Cray supercomputer, and have the money, should I need a reason for why I want it? It shouldnt matter that I could never use its full power, or that someone says that I dont need that much power. I personally have no interest in guns myself, but those that do should have the right to own any kind they please. Stores do instant credit checking on our Visa's and Mastercards, they could do it on our criminal records and such as well. The technology is available, lets use it. As for keeping a gun out of the hands of a "well-behaved" citizen that woke up one morning and snapped, set up a 10-20 day waiting period, or whatever on handguns, and so-called "assault weapons". Banning guns that can hold more than 5 rounds, and calling them assault weapons is silly because a gun could be MADE to hold 4 rounds in the magazine, but the magazine could be modified to hold more than that, it would probably just "stick out of the handle" a little bit. That action of all semi- automatic guns are basically the same in principle (I believe, someone will have to back me up on that) the guns physical styling and looks have no bearing on its power, but they LOOK scary, so they got banned. I am sure there are semi-automatic hunting rifles that are more powerful than an AK-47, but the AK has a higher capacity "clip". All one would need to do is make or aquire a higher capacity magazine, and that rifle would be more deadly than an AK, so the concept of assault weapons and legitimate weapons is really a non-issue. What really needs to be done, rather than banning the guns, is to really get the criminals, yes the police are out-gunned and out-manned.. so, give the police more money and more men to do their job, while it is unrealistic for a cop to walk down the street with a large-scale semi-automatic weapon, the standard pump-action shot gun in the police car could be replaced with a "better" weapon. While I agree something needs to be done about crime, getting rid of guns isnt the ansewer. In fact, I cant really say for sure that I know the ansewer, but for that matter.. nobody in Washington has had the right ansewer in the last 100 years so.. why start now? -*- 87232 8-MAY 19:38 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87226) From: MITHELEN To: COLORSYSTEMS But, weight of a gun has no relation to the power of the gun... Most target pistols use very small caliber ammo, and also, low power loads. The weight adds stability to the gun. I've hefted 22 cal. target rifles that weighed ove 30 lbs. The "problem" is, there is very little firearms education. Just like Drugs, or Sex, people should receive proper education about firearms when they are young. I can't wait til BB guns, and dart pistols get included some day as weapons that must be controlled... -- Paul -*- 87235 8-MAY 21:03 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87220) From: DSRTFOX To: COLORSYSTEMS Like you Zaxk, I don't think the "handguns over 50oz" clause will be a problem! There aren't ANY that I know of that would be reasonably considered "personal defense" weapons! The ONLY ones I can think of right off are the large capacity "Uzi" type weapons. -*- 87236 8-MAY 21:06 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87226) From: DSRTFOX To: COLORSYSTEMS Zack, the reason for the weight of target pistols is that the weight makes them steadier for aiming. The size of these items and low capacity (many are single shot, especially the larger ones) should preclude them from the law. They aren't easily carried a nyway! -*- 87237 8-MAY 21:40 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87230) From: JRUPPEL To: ILLUSIONIST I've followed this most of the way through, and I'm afraid that the parallel between the computer and the AK47 just isn't valid. I'm not sure about your system, but mine will not accept a bayonnet, or a multi-round clip, and as far as I know, I can't plug someone 12 times before they hit the ground with my Coco-even if it is a 2-meg! I feel that some of us out here are at a disadvantage...I own no weapons, other than a fishing rod, and I feel that anyone who wants to possess an assault weapon is looking for bigger game than I've ever heard a liscense issued for...Man. Just the other night on a radio talk show, someone mentioned that they saw no problem with assault weapons as long as they were used for what they were supposed to be used for. What a chilling thought. Those weapons are designed to kill PEOPLE, not big game or paper targets. Let's get real here. John Ruppel -*- 87239 8-MAY 23:33 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87237) From: MITHELEN To: JRUPPEL One of my friends owns a high powered snipers rifle (the kind that you see in moview, that breaks down in to a bunch of small peices, and fits in a little case) Certainly this type of firearm has no praticle use for the recreational user, it is the type of firearms one would use if they were in the business of contract killing, or wanted to assinate someone. But, infact, he does use it for recreation. He says it is idea for hunting. Compact, light weight, easy to take care of. and very accurate. I don't know if this type of firearm is included in the current legisation, but it would be only a matter of time. The point is, once the government is allowed to start restricting something, then it is just a matter of time til it decides that it will just do 100% restriction. If the government is really concerned about crime, then they should concentrte on better enforcement, and stiffer penalties. Criminals will always find alternate tools to do the crimes if the "usual" ones arn't available (which, no mater what type of gun control is in effect, criminales will still be able to get their tools of choice) -- Paul -*- 87240 9-MAY 00:08 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87239) From: ISC To: MITHELEN Paul, I hesitate to jump in here, but...you "better enforcement and stiffer penalties" people are just as wrongheaded as the "ban anything that might be construed as a weapon" people. Each of those approaches only swell the prison populations which, because the prisons are the best training grounds for career criminals, makes the crime problem that much more difficult to deal with. In addition, the spawning of ever growing police powers and agencies means that more and more of the population becomes dependant on the police agencies for their livelihoods and careers. Unless the underlying social problems are dealt with, no amount of gun or weapon control, no amount of punishing deterrence will be effective beyond a small blip in the statistics. I am old enough to remember the death penalty. It was common around the United States then. It didn't deter anyone who had the urge to murder, it only made enforcement harder because then the perp had the motivation to hide the deed well or frame someone else. Thomas Jefferson knew why the Feds should not have the power of life and death. The botching of the investigation of John Kennedy's murder is all the example anyone needs for that point to be illustrated. Let's address why there are homeless in the streets, and why people are so desparate as to turn to crime and why the various kinds of family abuse causes the monster personalities. If these things are not done, we will all live in a police state during the 21st century guaranteed. Bill -*- 87241 9-MAY 00:46 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87237) From: ILLUSIONIST To: JRUPPEL No, a computer wont kill a person (though my parents think I will get electrocuted :) ) however, both the computer and the gun are tools... banning a tool will not stop the crime be it hacking or murder from being commited.. hackers that want classified info and get paid for it, will buy their systems blackmarket or buy the parts to make one.. murders will just modify their guns, use a bigger clip or whatever, to accomplish what they already do... murder. That is of course, if they actually buy their guns from a store.. I will bet my money that they get them from the blackmarket not Bob's Gun Shop.... the damage that the tool has the possibilty of doing does not warrant it being banned.. computers should be banned because of hackers.. and guns shouldnt be banned because of killers....we have no reason to fear the tools.. just the people behind them. We dont mind the police and military having assault weapons, they are the "good" guys. Well guess what, anyone that doesnt run into a McDonalds and shoot people is a good guy, and they should be allowed to have the gun they want. Convict the damn guy that went into the MDonalds..and keep him there -*- 87242 9-MAY 00:48 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87232) From: ILLUSIONIST To: MITHELEN I bet you are right, BB and dart pistols will probably be banned one day lesse what would be the excuse then? "You'l shoot your eye out!!" hmmmm.... -*- 87245 9-MAY 03:26 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87228) From: PAGAN To: COLORSYSTEMS >There is absolutely no way anyone can justify the recreational ownership of >assault weapons, period. Reckon that depends on what you define as an assault weapon. Used to mean weapons that would actually be used in a military operation. Now it means any weapon that _looks_ like one that would be used in a military oper- ation. Ever wonder what's next? Stephen (PAGAN) -*- 87246 9-MAY 03:27 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87226) From: PAGAN To: COLORSYSTEMS >While it is very true that no gun control law will prevent the hardened >criminal from getting guns, that is not the purpose of gun control laws. You better believe it. The purpose of every gun control law since 1963 has been to make it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain firearms. >And gun control does not take legitimate guns out of the hands of legitimate >owners. A target pistol, high quality or low quality, that weighs that much >could very well be abused. Good enough reason for me. It does not take a >huge weapon to put holes in a piece of paper. The Ruger Mark II target pistol weighs 44 ozs empty. Add some better sights and a weight or muzzle brake to control rise and it could easily top that 50 oz mark. Of course being a .22 LR caliber it's probably used in drivebys and holdups all the time. Stephen (PAGAN) -*- 87247 9-MAY 03:28 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87220) From: PAGAN To: COLORSYSTEMS >You really need to get "out" more. According to national public opinion >polls, a majority of Americans favor handgun control. Even more than that >favor some kind of gun control legislation, such as the ban on assault >weapons. So what? The purpose of the Bill of Rights is to keep all those well meaning majorities from stomping all over the right of minorities. Remember Brown vs. Board of Education? For years, democratically elected legislatures had mandated "separate but equal" schools. That didn't make it right. Public opinion polls in 1942 supported the incarceration of American citizen whose only "crime" was having Japanese ancestors. That sure as hell didn't make it right. Stephen (PAGAN) -*- 87248 9-MAY 03:28 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87215) From: PAGAN To: DBREEDING (NR) I've been checking the "NEW-TODAY" file at whitehouse.gov every night since the bill was passed for some more "official" information about the new ban. I figured Uncle Billy would be crowing about his victory over that nasty NRA and their sympathizers and fellow travellers but nary a word yet. Rest assured, I'll post anything interesting. Stephen (PAGAN) -*- 87249 9-MAY 17:34 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87247) From: ILLUSIONIST To: PAGAN Very well said.. I think that people are starting to believe that just because the govt. says something is right, or the majority of people out there say something is right, that automatically makes it right for every person in america...its about time people start opening their minds to what is actually going on.. some people will call me paranoid, for worring about gun control (esp. when I, nor anyone I know uses guns), or how I worry about the Clipper chip.. etc.. but then there are those that say that paranoia is just another name for heightened awareness.. -* Mike -*- 87253 9-MAY 20:00 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87227) From: JOHNREED To: COLORSYSTEMS Zack, The "anti-gun-control" types are indeed more vocal. Perhaps the reason is that some of them (like me) don't even own a gun. We are not responding so much to gun control but to something much more important - another notch out of the Bill of Rights. Geeez, we're doing it again - cluttering up the OS9 forum with politics. I'll quit now. ******************************** "Don't take life too serious - it ain't nohow permanent" (Pogo) John R. Wainwright <> <> -*- 87254 9-MAY 20:15 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87249) From: COLORSYSTEMS To: ILLUSIONIST > Very well said.. I think that people are starting to believe that just > because the govt. says something is right, or the majority of people out > there say something is right, that automatically makes it right for every > person in america... And just because 3 million card carrying members of the NRA says something is right doesn't necessarily mean it is right, either. ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrowed it from our descendants." Ancient proverb -*- 87266 10-MAY 16:53 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87254) From: ILLUSIONIST To: COLORSYSTEMS Exactly, of course, I never did bring up the NRA, did I? But, yes.. just because they say something is right, that doenst make it so either. I suppose that what it boils down to, in my opinion, and that is all any of this is, opinion, is that personal freedoms, should never, under any circumstances, be trampled.. I can see the logic in supporting gun control, but I dont agree.. I am going to shut my mouth now, since this is the OS-9 forum, and not a polictical sig. -* Mike -*- 87269 10-MAY 20:01 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87239) From: DSRTFOX To: MITHELEN Of course your friends break-down rifle has legitimate sporting reasons! It would DEFINATELY be easy t ocarry on a long trip, especially if the trip was conducted through the air (easy in the baggage department). However, since I'm in the military and know how to handle an M-16, I can agree with you that assault rifles ARE designed to kill people and are generally of little use to a hunter. They are to short and don't have the stopping power required for big game at reasonable ranges, especially the newer small caliber weapons. The hunting rifles I have are much better for long range. If I intended to murder someone (for the sake of argument), I wouldn't use an assault type weapon. I'd most likely use a .22LR rifle at 50 yards or so. It is effective (well, 2-3 rounds anyway), and nearly untraceable. There are more .22s in this country than any other caliber. Pick up a cheap one at a pawn shop in some remote area, preferably anopther state, wait at least a month, then shoot the fellow and ditch the rifle. No assault weapon involved. Most people who buy assault weapons do so for collector purposes or simply "show-off" purposes. Very few people buy a weapon of any type with the intent to go out and shoot someone. And most of those are law enforcement people or criminals. I don't disagree with making a firearm not so easy to get (not necessarily difficult though) so that people who are unstable or have criminal records, and juveniles, can easily get them. One can now legally own a true machine gun with a class V dealer license, and they must register the weapon with local law enforcement personel. Licensing assault weapons would be more effective than banning altogether. The ban will leave those who really want them most (criminal types) with having them. For personal defense, I might add, an assault weapon does make some sense. They are designed to be manuevered in close quarters. And six shots may not be enough. We are taught to "double tap" (two shots) anyone we shoot. That means three people if all shots hit.. something not likely in a panic situation. Education is the real answer. You need to have at least a basic course in gun safety, even if lecture only, before being allowed to purchase a gun. In some states, such a course is necessary before a hunting license is issued. It would be a simple matter to require a hunting license before gun ownership is allowed. The "hunters safety course" only has to be taken once and a card is issued. Simply show it at the counter before purchase... -*- End of Thread. -*- 87225 8-MAY 16:41 Applications (6809) RE: Home manager (Re: Msg 87119) From: CHYDE To: JEJONES Actually if the users are only accessing the DB for reads then no special work is needed, since the OS takes care of those things. The problem arises when you have multiple people wanting to write to the DB. There are several ways to deal with this, the easiest of which is to only allow one person to open the file for read/write at a time. This can also be mostly handled by the OS (if I remember right) with only a little additional programming. Chris -*- 87263 10-MAY 05:56 Applications (6809) RE: Home manager (Re: Msg 87225) From: PAGAN To: CHYDE (NR) >Actually if the users are only accessing the DB for reads then no special >work is needed, since the OS takes care of those things. The problem arises >when you have multiple people wanting to write to the DB. There are several >ways to deal with this, the easiest of which is to only allow one person to >open the file for read/write at a time. This can also be mostly handled by >the OS (if I remember right) with only a little additional programming. You can lock out a section of a file with the SS_Lock SetStat or the _ss_lock() function in C if your working in OSK. This will lock out the section of a file from the current file pointer up to the number of bytes requested. You can't use buffered calls for this but setting up your own buffering isn't that hard and is usually faster than the buffered C calls anyway. Be careful as two users trying to access the same record can create a deadlock. Stephen (PAGAN) -*- End of Thread. -*- 87229 8-MAY 19:05 General Information hi! From: JOSEPHCHEEK To: ALL is it hot in here? hi, i just wanted to introduce myself and say 'hi'.. if anyone needs me, i'll be in the gun control forum asking what is a good os9 computer to buy. thanks! -*- 87231 8-MAY 19:30 General Information RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87229) From: ILLUSIONIST To: JOSEPHCHEEK (NR) :) That is a good one. If you are serious about buying an OS-9 computer.. a CoCo 3 with a hard drive makes a nice little system.. for a more modern faster computer a Delmar System 5, KIX/30 (by FHL), or an MM/1 (now sold by BlackHawk) are all good choices, I myself lean toward the Delmar.. because it uses a PC-style bus and the cards for it are pretty cheap.. Although, from what I have seen, more graphical-based PD apps exist for the MM/1 than the others.. -* Mike -*- 87243 9-MAY 01:00 General Information RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87231) From: MRUPGRADE To: ILLUSIONIST BTW: How much is a Delmar system?? System,, as in Computer, keyboard, w/memory, & at least one floppy, & ports to printer mouse,, etc. Til then,,, Terry Simons -*- 87244 9-MAY 03:26 General Information RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87229) From: PAGAN To: JOSEPHCHEEK (NR) >is it hot in here? hi, i just wanted to introduce myself and say 'hi'.. if >anyone needs me, i'll be in the gun control forum asking what is a good os9 >computer to buy. thanks! This ain't the gun control forum! Just happens that most OS9er's believe in the idea of individual rights. Add such anti social notions to the kind of intelligence they have already demonstrated (by choosing OS9 :-) and you have a bunch of politically incorrect "anarchists" who just don't take too kindly to having their rights trampled. Stephen (PAGAN) -*- 87250 9-MAY 17:37 General Information RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87243) From: ILLUSIONIST To: MRUPGRADE From my memory, a terminal based system is around $1000 ..I am not sure about a console-based system (that can do graphics and such) -* Mike -*- 87256 9-MAY 22:50 General Information RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87250) From: MRUPGRADE To: ILLUSIONIST Terminal VS consol based ?? I's hate to pay a thou,, for half a computer. I'm talking at least a full capability computer. Despite limited support,, I'd want to be able to do at least what a CoCo would. c delph Til then,,, Terry Simons -*- 87267 10-MAY 17:03 General Information RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87256) From: ILLUSIONIST To: MRUPGRADE well, I suppose its like this.. a CoCo, out of the box will only be able to play little game cartridges.. you buy a CoCo, play a few games when ya get the money, you can buy disk drives.. get some more spending money, by an RGB monitor.. then maybe a multipak..after a slow, but steady climb, you will have a "full computer".. and now that you have the hardware.. maybe you will buy OS-9, or maybe get 512k first..its all a personal decision.. the same thing goes with the Delmar.. only thing is, rather than get just the motherboard at first and playing games, you get the motherboard, floppies, and (i believe 4) serial ports... for $1000.. then when you get some extra money you buy a monitor, VGA card, and keyboard.. there, now you have graphics.. oh and you can throw a mouse on too.. down the line a little ways you complete the software buy getting Gwindows.. there ya go.. there is the basic hardware stuff down.. now, maybe add a few extras.. more memory maybe an ALT-86 board (to run DOS apps) ....ect.. buying a delmar (or KIX/30) is similar to buying a coco, in that it too allows you to slowly upgrade.... I myself dont have a delmar.. but when (if) I get an OSk machine, I know it will be a delmar.. right now, I dont need OSk I have level 2 on the CoCo, and 2 different flavors of UNIX on my PC's ....I actually might skip OSk and go right to OS-9000.. but that depends on how the OS-9000 scene looks when I have the money.. -* Mike -*- 87271 10-MAY 20:12 General Information RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87267) From: DSRTFOX To: MRUPGRADE The monitor and card for a Delmar system would add $300-$500, depending on the quality of the monitor. A card is under $100, 640x480 VGA monitors can be found for around $200, higher resolution would cost more. -*- 87278 10-MAY 22:00 General Information RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87267) From: MRUPGRADE To: ILLUSIONIST (NR) I gues my point is: when I buy a computer these days, I expect to start with: The main computer & keyboard (I don't know what I'd do with one that didn't have theh key baord with??) with at l4east one 3 & 1/2" drive,, and ports (without need of card) foro modem, rpinter, monitor (usually two types), a beginning memory of a meg or better, and a system DOS,, 8be it (MSDOS/ Workbencjh/ or OS) plus a basic to fit the machine. that is theh starting point of nay computer I've heard of. Except FHL,, who sells the pieces. But until these are together,, a comparible computer to me it ain't. Hard dirves,, extra mem, monitors,, like printers,, are parriffials to the discression of the user. I was just asking,, to get an idea,, how this (complete startup) computer would compare with others on the market. ?? Til then,,, Terry Simons -*- End of Thread. -*- 87233 8-MAY 19:58 General Information 2 B&B interfaces at the same time From: STEWARD To: ALL I need help. I've got 2 B&B xt interfaces, and I'm trying to use them at the same time. I have done this before when setting up someones system and backing up my stuff to thiers. But this time I'm not having any luck. I think it might be the xt interface. In the past, they've been the 1988 models with the 2 74f00 chips. This time, 1 of them is an older one with 1 74ls00 ic. Am I having an addressing conflict between? Is there a file that will tell me how to modify the old one to a newer one? Thanx in advance. -*- 87234 8-MAY 20:53 Telecom (6809) RE: Windows (Re: Msg 87170) From: DSRTFOX To: CHARLESAM When you renew at the fest I'll let you have a replacement #4 for half price.. $2.00. There isn't an organized breakfast at the fest, but the hotel has aood restaurant and breakfast buffet! -*- 87238 8-MAY 23:10 Telecom (6809) RE: Windows (Re: Msg 87234) From: CHARLESAM To: DSRTFOX Thanx for the break on the mag#4. I'm glad we won't have to go far for chow. If I can't get a cup of coffee first thing, I just ain't human. As a matter of record, I don't travel without a coffee pot if I can help it. I'm really looking forward to this, it will probably be my last chance at a Fest. See you there Frank. Charlie -*- End of Thread. -*- 87251 9-MAY 18:14 OSK Applications PGP for OSK? From: KSCALES To: ALL Lessee... > Topic: OSK Applications > Subject: PGP for OSK? Can you guys find a more appropriate area for these discussions? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales@delphi.com CIS:74646,2237 =-=-=-=-=-= Intel: Putting the backward in backward compatible =-=-=-=-=-= -*- 87257 9-MAY 23:17 OSK Applications RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87251) From: DSPICER To: KSCALES KSCALES> Can you guys find a more appropriate area for these discussions? I'll second this motion! Message Composed at 22:13:16 on 05/09/94. Access CoCo of L.A. (Lower Alabama) (205)598-2100 * ODN Ver 1.00 - Delphi Navigator for OS/2 * -*- End of Thread. -*- 87252 9-MAY 18:44 General Information WD 1002-05 From: ILLUSIONIST To: ALL Doesn anyone know where I can get a WD 1002-05 controller for use with the Eliminator? I have looked around and cant seem to find one. I was hoping someone would know of a used computer-parts place where I might be able to get one. Thanks.. -* Mike PS. if someone out there has an Eliminator/WD controller set that they want to sell, I will buy the Eliminator and WD (I can always use the Eliminator that I have like it is now.. for serial and par. I/O ..besides.. I have no argument about having another 2 serial ports around :) ) -*- 87255 9-MAY 22:02 Telecom (6809) KBCOM From: MMCCLELLAND To: ALL Getting off the subject a little, I am looking for a good terminal program, such as KBCOM. I know that it is in the TELECOM database, but I don't have an OS-9 terminal program to download it with. If anyone knows how I can get an UN-ARCHIVED version of KBCOM on disk, leave me a message. --Mark -*- 87262 10-MAY 00:16 Telecom (6809) RE: KBCOM (Re: Msg 87255) From: RANDYKWILSON To: MMCCLELLAND (NR) Mark, First off, grab COCOOS9.BAS from the OS9 General area. This is a DECB program that will make a disk readable (only) by OS9. Then, download the SuperCom version 2.2 binary, only the binary. Save SuperComm to a DECB disk as binary data (like a picture file), and use the COCOOS9.BAS to make the disk readable. Then boot os9, copy SuperComm onto your normal disk, set the attr, and run. SuperComm is intuitive enough that you don't need the docs to do basic stuff. Run it with the command "supercomm [#xxK] <>>>/w&". "F1" or Alt-? will get you a list of commands. Now you should be able to get online with OS9, and download archivers, doc files, and, if you insist, KBCom. :> BTW, I uploaded the Supercomm binary seperate and unarchived just for situations like this. Yell back if you need more detailed info on how to do all this. Randy -*- End of Thread. -*- 87258 9-MAY 23:35 General Information Harddrives From: THESCHU To: ALL I have been trying to find some info on some hard drives that I got at Dayton hamfest. make: RODIME -- model: RO3055 TYPE 92B If any one has some info on these harddrives please let me know. Thanx Brian. -*- 87264 10-MAY 07:44 General Information RE: Harddrives (Re: Msg 87258) From: MROWEN01 To: THESCHU I don't know the exact info you want on these disk drives, but here is what I dredged up. I don't know if the type 92B means anything or not. MODEL Capacity Heads Cylinders Avg Interface Sect Form Factor ------- --------- ----- --------- --- --------- ---- ----------- RODIME 3055 45MB 6 872 28 MFM 17 3.5" HH If I can be of further assistance, let me know. Mike Rowen -*- 87270 10-MAY 20:07 General Information RE: Harddrives (Re: Msg 87264) From: DSRTFOX To: THESCHU I believe most of the Rodime drives will support 256 byte sectors also, so it should be usable with a B&B CoCo XT. -*- 87276 10-MAY 21:44 General Information RE: Harddrives (Re: Msg 87264) From: THESCHU To: MROWEN01 (NR) THANKS ALOT!!! I needed that info badly!!! Brian -*- 87277 10-MAY 21:45 General Information RE: Harddrives (Re: Msg 87270) From: THESCHU To: DSRTFOX (NR) Thanks!! Brian. -*- End of Thread. -*- 87259 9-MAY 23:42 System Modules (6809) RE: Merging files (Re: Msg 87210) From: RANDYKWILSON To: CHARLESAM I see Zack got you an answer, though I have a minor correction. The magic size is n*8K - 512 (not 1024). Do keep N to a minimum, though. when Os9 sets up the map for a program to run, it maps in eveything that was merged with it. If you run N up, this will eat into the data space you'll have available. For instance, SC is currently around 18K. Due to the 8K granularity, you can run it with up to 40K of data. If you merge things in, and stay under 23.5K, you can still use 40K of data. But if you go over 23.5K, even though SC itself is still 18K, you'll only be able to get 32K of data, 'cause everything you merged in also gets put into SC's map. Randy -*- 87261 10-MAY 00:07 System Modules (6809) RE: Merging files (Re: Msg 87259) From: CHARLESAM To: RANDYKWILSON I only want to use the space to 23040, or next 8K border. My SC is 17861. I figure that leaves me 5179 to use. I can think of some handy utils to put in that space. I'm trying to use a program called wmenu which came with Tools II from cocopro. I'm running into difficulty getting it to run from startup. I'm not sure one can pass control from one program to another, at least not startup. If you or anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them. As always, thanx for your time and help. Charlie -*- End of Thread. -*- 87260 9-MAY 23:48 Telecom (6809) RE: Loading SC to another window (Re: Msg 87204) From: RANDYKWILSON To: WA2EGP (NR) Actually, I was more in your neck of the woods this past weekend. Flew into Newark and spent the weekend sitting on a mountain at this depressing place called Pocono Raceway. And i was wrong on the schedule. I'm in New York this coming weekend, out on the wrong end of Long Island (Bridgehampton). Looks like the fest lines up with the Atlanta race. Randy -*- 87265 10-MAY 08:40 General Information usenet From: KENFLANAGAN To: GREGL (NR) Hi. Do you know if we could get an usenet reader area added to this SIG? I do not like using the NN reader in the Internet menu. I do like using the setup in the ATARI sig. I would prefer to have it here though as I do most of my on-line stuff here. Thanks. -*- 87268 10-MAY 17:11 General Information HeathKit case/PS From: ILLUSIONIST To: ALL A friend of mine gave me an old heathkit floppy system, (real old 5.25 full height clunkers) does anyone have any idea if the PS in it could host a modern hard drive (I know it couldnt host the old full height HD's but I was thinking that it might be able to handle the more modern 3.5 HD's.. ) thanks for any info.. -* Mike BTW, is there a company out there that still sells SCSI systems for the CoCo? are they sold complete, or just the controller.. I supply the HD and case/PS -*- 87273 10-MAY 20:13 General Information RE: HeathKit case/PS (Re: Msg 87268) From: DSRTFOX To: ILLUSIONIST (NR) I'll be selling KenTOn SCSI controllers and complete systems after the CoCoFest. I'll have a complete setup at the fest for show also! -*- 87274 10-MAY 20:15 General Information RE: HeathKit case/PS (Re: Msg 87273) From: DSRTFOX To: ILLUSIONIST (NR) Oh yeah, in general, the full height floppies (especially the old ones) gobbled up power! There should be enough power there to drive a 3.5" hard drive easily, and probably a relatively new 5.25" half high HD and a floppy with no problems! That has been my experience with the old grey case RS drive cases anyweay. -*- End of Thread. -*- 87272 10-MAY 20:13 OSK Applications GNU C/C++ From: VAXELF To: ALL I downloaded both the NEW GNU C V2.5.8 and C++ V2.5.8 I have a couple of questions about them. 1. How much memory is required to use them. I have had success using the C++ with my 3Meg MM/1, but when I try to use the C compiler it says that there is not enough memory to fork CC2. 2. What dash (-) commands should I have turn on for compiling most files. 3. Are there NEW Docs for the V2.5.8 John Donaldson Chicago T minus 10 days and counting.................. -*- 87275 10-MAY 20:19 OSK Applications RE: GNU C/C++ (Re: Msg 87272) From: MITHELEN To: VAXELF (NR) You really need 8+ megs to use the new GNU C/C++ stuff for OSK. No answer for your other questions, since I really haven't looked at the new stuff in depth. I do have the 2.5.8 docs on my Sun though, so if you want them, I can probably put them on a bunch od disks for you anbd give them to you at the Fest. -*- End of Thread. -*- FORUM>Reply, Add, Read, "?" or Exit>